I still did not found better audio source. I was upgrading it in this order and still could not believe every time it sounded better. Ultimately, reducing noise in a system or improving room acoustics can have a bigger effect. When a dealer post something you have to take it with a enormous grain of salt. It is worth every penny. DAVE is the most advanced DAC Chord Electronics has ever made. Well this is going to set the cat amongst the pigeons for sure. subjective to a point and that is why we do blind testing and A/B testing with Main Menu Sit back and be immersed. If I got a great $20K DAC for less, I would not object. So this was headphones straight out of the DAVE? Wavedream only has a couple hours on it, but from the first note it The in-house discrete design is then constructed into its own shielded CNC pocket for optimal isolation. I cant help with comparisons of two of these DACs, but I did hear the Tambaqui up against the dCS Bartok and it was a pretty close call, but ultimately the dCS sounded more analogue and more immersive, I have heard the Dave and EMM Labs DAC2x up against aMakua that I subsequently purchased. The modular nature of the Discrete and other MSB DACs is very clever and I assume this goes a good way towards giving it such a neutral and detailed sound, where no one part is interfering with what the other is doing. When we set out to make the MSB remote, the design was built from the ground up. I've sometimes heard people say that DAVE is too bright or analytical for them. It is an unassuming but very nicely put together component that has had a great deal of thought put into the architecture of the parts that make it up. Aurender W20-> Lampizator Pacific SE -> Ayon Crossfire III or Circle Labs A100 -> Avantgarde Acoustic Trio LE 26 with 4x REL Carbon Special ,SACD Player: Audio Aero La Fontaine. The end users ears are the only ears that count. Click to expand. in this forum and they are all very good dacs. However, its also very nice to listen to in this system, though I would say it is more accurate/true to the original DAC than our LAB12 DAC or perhaps our Lampizator BIG 7. You are using an out of date browser. Sounds shrill on my workstation and work laptop. And this is what separates the very good from the excellent piece of audio equipment. This is a review, detailed measurements and listening tests of CHORD DAVE combination DAC and headphone amplifier. HiFiMan Ananda, SR Orange fuses, Taiko Audio Daiza platforms, Startech FMC optical network link, Oyaide EE f/s2.0 V2 mains spurs, Akiko Audio tuning sticks, GIK Acoustic TriTraps/panels. So take it for what it is. The more observant of you will have read this and noticed that there is no mains inlet. Im participating to both learn and make suggestions where I have experience that may help. I also looked at the MSB Discrete DAC but everything thing was an extra cost option (USB, AES/EBU, power supply, etc.,) and expensive. It was a speaker setup (as in my signature.) The output modules are where the converted digital signals are output to analogue signals that our amplifiers can make use of and MSB make two flavours of the output module. MSB Discrete | The Ear And I've learned to be careful and not generalize how a component will sound based on show conditions or other systems. auditioned the Rockna Wavedream Edition DAC. If I had been responsible for coding that display I would never tell anyone. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Roon Endpoint The Discrete Power Supply feeds the DAC with dual low-noise power streams that are linear and independent. Digital: Sonore opticalModule > Uptone EtherRegen > Shunyata Sigma Ethernet >Antipodes K30> Shunyata Omega USB> Gustard X26pro DAC < Mutec REF10 SE120, Amp& Speakers: Spectral DMA-150mk2 >Aerial 10T, Foundation: Stillpoints Ultra,ShunyataDenali v1 andTyphon power conditioners,Shunyata Delta v2 and QSA Lanedri Gamma power cords, QSA Lanedri GammaRevelationinterconnect,Shunyata SigmaEthernet,MIT Matrix HD60speaker cables, ASC isothermal tube traps, Stillpoints Aperture panels. The SQ from DAC headphone output is lower than the best headphone amplifier but that kind of amplifier costs close to DAVE itself. It is a manual step which I forgot. Subjective grading of DACs that I had heard during last one year period Our digital testing has been done over the last 20 + years Equipment used: - Roon - 3-in 1-out XLR switchbox - Goldpoint SA2X Attenuator - Benchmark AHB2 Amplifier - Hifiman Susvara headphones (Also used Arya and HD800S but for the most part susvara) Video review of DAVE + Mscaler here: I think is a good general rule of thumb, but there are some very transparent passive pre-amps out there. This leaner and cleaner edge has the effect of adding a level of perceived detail to the listening experience. Thats why were thrilled to offer up to 100% trade-in value for existing MSB products when upgrading to a higher performing series. I suppose what Im saying (badly) is that the Discrete was true to the file it was being fed and I did enjoy hearing it allowed me to pull small details out of the mix Jazz at the Pawn Shop (DSD128) felt more lifelike and in the room than I am used to and raw tracks such as Phutures Acid Trax did sound rougher and really basically recorded. Of the ones you mentioned I'd be most tempted by the Emm Labs DAC 2x though if you can get a used higher-end Esoteric, you should jump on it. Our products include our in-house designed viton feet, but any audiophile M6X1 foot can be installed to personalize your system. I like Aqua Formula xHD and Totaldac Six. dCS Bartok>Chord DAVE>MSB discrete discreteR2R R2R DAVE BartokdCSBartok Some silly sausage plugged a white power cable into a black device. The sonic signature is detailed and yet easy to listen to, with the Discrete bringing a sense of the recordings scale (big or small) to the listening experience. @yyzsantabarbara, your dealer quote is interesting, I suspected that the Mola Mola was that good. For such a high entry price I wouldn't take the gamble to go on some recommendation by a stranger whose tastes I don't know. heard, I could easily live with the Aeris, Dave, or Wavedream. I may need to reset expectations a bit lower: This is an update to some old DAVE vibration control posts. Chord DAVE DAC Preamp Amplifier - Moon Audio It may not display this or other websites correctly. While were committed to long lasting products that hold their value, we realize audio systems are always evolving. @astewart8944--two years ago in Feb of 17 i did audition the original Formula dac in my system directly compared to the Lampizator GG 1.5 and the Nagra HD and preferred the Formula for its greater space, lower noise, and more neutral and fast presentation. MSB Technology [Select DAC II Full Option] Chord [Dave] Myek [Manhattan II] I had A-B test about 2 months. Copyright Hifi Pig and Hifi Pig Magazine, Big Pig Media LLP. You must log in or register to reply here. I have listened to MSB Analog DAC and Diamond DAC IV but not in the same setup as DAVE. Chord Dave Black New The Prime DAC With two prime DACs, MSB yields an unprecedented level of detail, reproducing the musicality, soundstage, and texture of an original performance, bringing the artist to you Ps Audio Directstream Dac Vs Auralic Vega Founded in 2004, Games for Change is a 501(c)3 nonprofit that empowers game creators and . Did I mention the remote is perfect? No matter what ice cream you prefer, I prefer something else. Much appreciated. Dave Chord Dac Vs Discrete Msb - 111.toptrans.milano.it The bottom line for me is that great DACs can make a difference over good DACs. There is the option to add a streaming module to the Discrete and if I was in the market for a digital streaming solution, then this is where I would be going. This unit came with two power supplies and Ill be playing with the DAC with one and with two to compare and contrast. You already have a very top tier DAC. That's just too money for the performance. The Chord Qutest DAC has the same DAC architecture and filters as the Chord Hugo 2. Who knows ?! "To be 100% honest we have A/B tested most of the dacs mentioned The Dave as a DAC actually sounds decent. Id imagine that upscaling refers to increasing bit-depth (like from 16 to 24 bits) which adds "vertical" resolution to the waveform in theory, improving amplitude resolution making subtle low-level detail more natural and audible (among other things) if done correctly. A fully balanced, ultra-high precision, discrete ladder DAC architecture ensures each note tells a story. Is it too hot to touch? The MSB simply sounded more real to my ears and offered a more convincing soundstage and tonality and all the tiny informations in the music where integrated in the musical flow whereas the DAVE simply sounded flat and not realistic to my ears and even lacked those tiny informations. I'm not an absolutist, and frankly, I could be happy with any of the DACs I mentioned. And differences at that level can be good. I'm really anxious to hear more opinions about this DAC and noticed that DAVE hasn't got a thread of its own (only together with Mojo). 2 DAC | Audionet Pre G2 preamp | Audionet Max mono blocks | Vivid Audio Giya G2 Series 2 | 4 JL Audio Fathoms | Echole ICs /SCs / Siltech Classic 550L jumpers, Shunyata PCs / Eth. You are using an out of date browser. CHORD ELECTRONICS DAVE | Page 934 - Head-Fi.org Were constantly improving digital input modules to stay at the forefront of the high-end audio industry, ensuring youre always equipped with the most current digital file formats and interfaces. The Premier is a super-high-resolution, completely silent, utterly dynamic component that lets music flow through it less hindered than through anything else I've heard. But MSB Select 2 is regarded by many as the best thats why for something 1/10 of the price to compete in anyones eyes is quite an accomplishment. The MSB DAC comes with one external PSU as standard. This hobby is "highly subjective", influenced by personal feelings, tastes, or opinions; therefore you can A/B a million different components and come to a completely different conclusion on how it sounds compared to another listener. An exploration of Chord DAVE, MScaler, Qutest, and Holo May, HQPlayer For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. The AC modules are fully balanced at every stage, have no buffers, IV converters, or transistors in the signal path, and have no active devices used in the conversion process at all. I'm looking for suggestions on DACs I should listen to as possible replacement of my Chord Dave. Sources: Hiby R6, Fiio x3II, Fiio x5II DACs: Dave, Yggdrasil, Hugo, Hugo TT, U12. Since the Topping D70s SINAD is ~120 dB and it costs ~$650, then given that "money is power" (as opposed to amplitude), I would expect the Chord DAVE SINAD to be at least 120 + 10*log($14,000 / $650) = 133.3 dB. SoundLab A1Px's, ARC REF40, VTL Siegfired II, cj GAT2, cj ART, DCS Vivaldi 2.0 stack, Taiko Audio SGM Extreme, TechDas AF1+ , Graham Phamtom III, Sumiko Palo Santos, vdH Black Beauty, ARC Phono 3, Studer A80, Crystal Dreamline, Transparent Audio Ref XL digital and Ref Gen V power cables, CenterStage footers, Nordost Qkore6' s and QB8's! in this forum and they are all very good dacs. November 11, 2020 in Digital Sources, DACs, and Computer Audio. Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator, https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/absolute-top-tier-dac-for-standard-res-redbook-cd. I submit dealers use the statement "component X competes against much more expensive components" far too often. Our publication is supported by its audience. So, essentially, around the back of this DAC we have XLR output modules, dual power inputs (more on this in a moment) the digital input module (XLR, RCA, and two optical), and the USB input. fake by any means necessary jacket. Height with feet: 68 mm Weight: 8.2 kg, Accessories included: Manual Remote control Aluminum MSB USB charging cable 4 X Spikes and Cups 4 X plastic inserts Power connector splitter, MERASON FRROT DAC REVIEW The Merason Frrot DAC costing 995 isn't the first thing that comes to mind when we think of Switzerland. Anyway, the little bit of extra detail on the strings, the attack, and decay are all there to be heard and its a marvelous thing to listen to. Many competing DACs will have a more comprehensive display at this price and, more commonly still, an app designed for intuitive access via smartphone and/or tablets. It would be absolute suicide for an audio distributor to I can leave my hand on it as long as I want to. Sound Media Group Pty Ltd Given your appreciation of the Pacific Microsonics DAC, I hope you'll get a chance to hear the Berkeley in your system as well. Up to 8X DSD I own the MSB Select II with the dual powerbases and 33 Femto Clock. Theres just a sense that with the MSB in the line that everything is timed correctly and rock solid. Like others said, I'd try first an MScaler with DAVE. You go off people's opinions and hope it'll match your equipment and system when you put the hard earned down. of the 5 systems are completely different, our rooms are completely different Looking forward to the your additions to the list. And the Jeff Rowland Aeris DAC with new PSU. The headamp is powerful but not involving. Does anyone have formula for that? To build a simple and good system). It may not display this or other websites correctly. - Meat Loaf. However, there are also products that manage to straddle both sides of the electric fence (whilst being careful not to electrocute their nether regions) and give us a tremendously enjoyable reproduction of a recording whilst remaining true to the source material. The DAVE is very resolving, but thinner tonally in comparison to the EMM Labs. Gbel High End [Divin Noblesse], [Divin Marquis], ([Epoque Aeon Fine]). But dont take our word for it. It's UPDATE VIDEO THREE for the Chord Electronics DAVE DAC REVIEW I have spent a lot more time with the DAVE Dac, still using. Of those, I've only heard the DAVE. I have heard a lot of top DACs at shows or other systems but not in my own. Whether its a software update or a leading-edge modular component, were here to help the most valued aspect of MSBour customers. You absolutely can say that you prefer other DAC's to the Berkeley Alpha Reference. ISOAcoustics Oreas footers. The good DS (delta sigma) dacs that aren't hard or harsh, are a bit of a yawn, and lack bringing out the life (boogie factor) of the music, but in a . Others might disagree but these are my findings. Stuart Smith finds out. I dont know as that was years ago and I dont have one here to test against. When connecting to the MScaler, Dual-BNC was used on the chord dacs with shawline digital BNC cables. Focusing on our network renderer and USB input, your audio tech will be on the cutting edge. 2001-2023 Head-Fi.org. In that price range, you would be mad not to add the MSB Premier DAC to your list as well. I believe it comes down to Fair enough if you know some of the posters here and their listening preferences. I thought the DAVE was just as stunning with DSD as PCM. It may not display this or other websites correctly. This would help to take your digital playback upa few levels. Analogue Volume Control 1dB from 0 to 106 Deactivable by menu, Dimensions ChassisWidth : 432 mmDepth: 305 mmHeight without feet: 51 mm. Was it a speaker setup or headphone setup? Specifications: Type: Digital to analogue converter with volume control. Besides that the MSB looks so much better. has 20 hours on it. "Im not sure if there are algorithms that can add high-frequency information that wasnt captured in the original sampled result". I believe it comes down to You are using an out of date browser. I suppose that the vast majority of people who listen for pleasure at home are looking for a balance between the two, and whilst I still maintain we are most likely to hear the biggest effect in a system by changing transducers, every element in the chain of sound will affect the final sound and, in a digital system, I think the DAC you choose can have a huge effect on the final sound. It's too damn expensive, full stop. It is my name after all! will every hear. JavaScript is disabled. DLNA Protocol. Of course this DAC is super pricey and out of the reach of many (including me). At MSB, we believe excellence is a promise worth keeping. 2. The Discrete DAC uses two of these modules per unit. I don't have that kind of money. You must log in or register to reply here. It features the very best conversion technology available, using proprietary techniques never seen before, making DAVE the most advanced DAC/preamp amplifier in the world. I can see that in an A/B comparison, many other DACs sound more impressive than DAVE/Blu2. Unless they have the exact same components as the end user, it's impossible to tell that customer how component X will sound in their system. Going by the performance of the Mola Mola Makua (pre with dac module) it will be extremely good. luxury apartment hotels paris. As I said, its an odd one to describe but you do hear it as it brings a sense of rightness to rhythm tracks. Whats Best Forum is THE forum for high end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. Cheers @Stereophilus The Discrete is a genuine high fidelity DAC and a fabulously built one to boot, add in the modular input flexibility and you have a pretty stunning product with excellent future proofing. I did have the BADA Ref in my system for a short audition, and the Trinity And CH Precision C1 for a longer stay during a previous iteration of my system. The modular nature of MSB products allows you to have the bits you want and leave out those you dont, The display is a bit basic but it does what it needs to and you can see it from the other side of the room, Detail and transparency are the main features, Allows a real insight into the makeup of a track, Brings a sense of timing being bang on the money, Detail isnt a result of the higher frequencies being artificially pushed, Both PSUs are not absolutely necessary but once you remove one you want to put the other back in. This latter track is a good track for me to play when listening to new kit as it is basically a drum machine and an acid box and this latter did sound just like a 303 there in the room. This latter recording gets played to death at shows, but that doesnt detract from it being a very good tune and a very good recording, though I have been known to take the piss a bit when it gets played for the tenth time in a day at audio events. Yeah, im thinking a post lock-down GTG is in order. Powered by Invision Community. I haven't heard MSB or theDenafrips DAC. More to follow. The PSUs are available to match. which make some people prefer this one to MSB Select II Point 85 Chord Dave and Mscaler (or Blue II transport) This one give transparent and 3D soundstage with excellent details. What is available on models higher up the MSB food chain is the ability to add an analogue module so that you can use the unit as a true preamplifier and DAC. Australian Business Number 38 650 151 296, Digital Sources, DACs, and Computer Audio, Chord Dave vs Mola Mola Makua/Tambaqui vs Emm Labs Dac2x vs Rockna Wavedream. When you get the chance to hear Chord DAVE, try playing files bit perfect instead of upsampling them to DSD256 with HQPlayer. Edited November 11, 2020 by seadog. Others might disagree but these are my findings. CH Precision C1 DAC. The Discrete is around 11,000 whilst the Select is 120,750 with its power base. Is this what passes for high end? msb discrete dac vs chord dave - 1click3d.com The video cannot be shown. Up to 1km lossless transmission. Or arm yourself with a nice bottle of red and pay a visit to@Stereophilus. This is purely speculation based on browsing the internet over the years and internalising pro/con reviews from users. Is it better than the Chord DAVE that I raved about a few years ago? that it is difficult to say you have the best in regard to dacs but Rockna is Yeah, you and me both- the look I got wasn't as funny as the one I got from the Sennheiser stand when I asked if they had any HD600 or HD650, instead of all those Momentums and so forth, but still. But of course, I love window shopping and perusing top tier systems including illustrious more familiar gear like Lampi, TD, MSB, Ares Cerat, Aqua. Everyone hears differentlyI heard the Dave with the Blu and I prefer it without it. So true jr, the discrete R2R Multibit dacs like the Terminator the Holo, MSB, Total ect ect have a life and a boogie factor to the music that DS dacs lack, and yes they do show up bad recordings. Thank me laterLoL. Superior conversion begins with clean and stable low-noise power. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register. Fully agree that it could come down to personal preference @RoriHope you have arranged auditions. Elegant yet commanding, our finishes are available in a matte silver or matte black anodize. frequency response graphs, CSD waterfall plots, subjective gear reviews. DACs Overview - MSB Technology Have you thought about hooking up a Blu2 to Dave? Each clock is made up of two independent clocks but only one is used at any given time so as not to add unwanted noise to the circuit. It is just as important as the DAC itself. I cant help with comparisons of two of these DACs, but I did hear the Tambaqui up against the dCS Bartok and it was a pretty close call, but ultimately the dCS sounded more analogue and more immersive.However, this was at a time when both units were a similar price. Chord Dave DAC "Sealed Box Brand New" Never Opened !! There are a lot of people that absolutely love the M-scaler. Set up is key, cables are super important, server is also Blimey my RME ADI 2 DAC looks to have better performance at a fraction of the cost, /===============================================================/, DACs, Streamers, Servers, Players, Audio Interface, Combination Audio DAC and Headphone Amplifiers. But the differences between great DACs is small. the Extreme has some special optimization for USB. You're very polite about how you describe your preferences, cmarin. - Roon Endpoint. MQA decoding I like all this attention to detail and the MSB website suggests a company that is massively proud of its American heritage and of the products they make. What did you think with the Chord Dave vs Emm Labs Dac2x? He liked the Mola Mola Tambaqui over these others listed below. I expected a lot better. Directstream, Bricasti M1, Jeff Rowland Aeris, Chord Dave, and today I It matches Chord Dave and Mscaler on dynamics with slightly more bass slam. Bespoke Audio Ultimate Silver TVC passive preamp, Totaldac xlr version D1-Drivers x2, Eisteddfod 340 & 840 amps, Magico S5 speaker, MSB Select DAC, MSB Select Transport, Nakamichi 700 XLE cassette deck, Taiko Audio Extreme Server, Tripoint Troy Signature NG groundbox, PLiXiR Elite 1500 isolation transformers. The DACs are individually shielded and thermally-bonded and multiple units are used per channel, which MSB tells us increases performance and lowers output impedance. I have heard the Dave and EMM Labs DAC2x up against aMakua that I subsequently purchased. Thats not allthe CNC unibody aluminum chassis provides the discrete power supply with optimal thermal performance and an elegant design aesthetic. Tailored for both the transport and the DACs daily use, our remote brings you closer to the music you love. Elevator Pitch Review: Built in America, the MSB Discrete is a modular DAC that also acts as a preamplfier, though, as supplied, it has no analogue inputs. The Discrete DAC, The Premier DAC, The Reference DAC, The Select DAC II, Theater Master. And in the case of a great DAC with great amps in a system with very low noise, going direct to the amps can be magical. To me, the instrumental timbre seems more accurate with DAVE than any other DACs I've heard. I think my DAVE sounds great with everything. This all-American theme is continued in the companys PCB Shop where they use circuit boards produced for them in Silicon Valley, which are then made ready for the automated adding of the smaller components and hand-fitting bulkier components before washing and inspection. But digital, potentially, can change things. This is THE place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss vintage, contemporary and new audio products, music servers, music streamers, computer audio, digital-to-analog converters, turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel-to-reel tape machines, speakers, headphones and tube and solid-state amplification. I'm looking for suggestions between $10K - $12K. digital front ends. As the noise in my system keeps getting lower, the PM2 keeps reaching deeper to find even more musical engagement and purity in standard 16/44 files. Personally we have A/B 76 different digital front ends.. turns out that with the Extreme USB slightly pulls ahead of the Ethernet with the Renderer, then adding the Pro USB there is now a significant step up over the Renderer. Rori An FPGA does not have analog output, in the Chord DACs, VLC | M-Audio FastTrack Pro | Mac Opt | Panasonic SA-HE100 | Logitech Z623, : SET Tube Amp | Low-Noise Linear Regulated Power Supply | USB, Power, Speaker Cables | Speaker Stands | Acoustic Panels, http://igg.me/at/geekpulseaudio/x/5216671. . - Up to 32 bit - 768kHz. Actual auditioning of the unit prior to purchase is paramount. This is a dealers email comment to me about comparisons he did. RCA outputs with the optional output module Voltage: 3.57 Vrms Maximum Impedance > 600 High Gain setting. And if I had to guess (given I haven't heard both), I'd guess it outperforms the Tambaqui. Can't beat the form factor of it though, great for off a desk top. Never say never, but I reckon 99.9% of folk would get to the Discretes level of performance and not be able to justify another 110K to achieve, what I am guessing would be marginal gains though I have not experienced the Select and so cannot say for sure that this would be the case and it may be a total revelation is sonic engineering. The biggest question about this device is, Yeah listened to the same HEk V2 and Chord Dave with. Thanks. The SQ is amazingly good. personal preference." I would have loved if you heard them in the same system for a direct comparison. list the Rockna Wavedream Edition sounds this good, how good does their The world's largest high-end audio community. conversation. It's not just a matter of being polite, it's also about acknowledging that what we hear and what we prefer is uncertain and changes; that the comparisons were made at different points in time wherein my system had varying levels of resolution/ noise; the fact that making a change requires greater energy and usually more money than staying with what you have; and that sometimes the differences between components are not significant or actionable. The MSB Discrete DAC is an American made Digital to Analogue Converter costing 11,000 plus an extra 1650 for the second external power supply. Not sure why you would spend so much on a DAC when the Crane Song Solaris is available at $1,949. With two prime DACs, we yield an unprecedented level of detail, reproducing the musicality, soundstage, and texture of an original performance, bringing the artist to you. Anyone make that comparison? Daedalus Audio Apollo 11's. REL S3/SHO. Additionally, MSBs robust in-house design enables the finest quality playback of PCM and native DSD, while our low impedance circuitry drives your amplification directly without adding coloration or buffering noise. This one has similar sound signature to MSB Premier But it is half notch below MSB Premier on dynamics, details, soundstage. Im outputting directly to the LAB12 (and later a Krell KST100) power amp and so a digital volume algorithm is used where the digital volume control is left at a relatively high output so as not to encounter loss at lower volume levels.